Saturday 9 June 2012

Why are forum posters so mean to Andy?

I hardly dare read any of the cycling forums: the mere mention of "Andy Schleck" seems to invite a torrent of abuse.

"Cry-Baby Schleck" they call him. For standing up for himself? For making his opinion known? Even back at Chaingate, he wasn't crying about it - he stated clearly that he "would not have ridden like that".

"Can't even change gears without slipping a chain" they say. Not true: Andy has always said that he wasn't changing gears, the chain just dropped. I'm not a good enough cycling observer to see it for myself, although even I can see that he clearly goes over a bump/hole in the road just before it happens.  I can't see if he is changing gear or not, but if he says he wasn't: well, that's good enough for me.

"Can't descend a flight of stairs without Kim holding his hand." Patently untrue - is he still stuck up the top of a mountain anywhere? No, I think not. Of course he's not as good a descender as Nibali, or Sammy "Scary Forehead" Sanchez: who is? Descending is not his speciality: that would be Climbing, and Being Able To Ride For Three Weeks Non-stop.

"Rubbish at TT" they say. Excuse me, if you accept that the Tour contains the best riders in the world, both he and Frankie were in the top 20 at last year's TT. That's hardly "rubbish". Again, not his best discipline, but there are some riders who specialise in TT, and all the rest of them are not as good.

"Always whining" they say. Not entirely fair, we read the interviews in English, which is not his first, or even his second language: furthermore, they may even have been re-translated into English from German, French, Italian or even from Luxembourgish. It's easy to lose the nuance and flavour of a quote when it's been through translation a couple of times. He was asked for his opinion of a parcours, and he replied that he didn't think a Tour should be decided by descending: that's an opinion, not a whine. Now he is standing up for himself against Mr Bruyneel, and they still say he's whining?

"Anorexic - too skinny" they say. Oh, well, hardly: have you seen the amount he eats? And have you seen his identically-slender brother? It's genetics, people, the pair of them are built that way, as are the majority of serious climbers in the peloton. I doubt they will ever be fat!

"I've lost my love for Andy Schleck a long time ago"  Well, that wasn't "love" then, was it? As they say, "A true fan is not one who has been there since the beginning, a true fan is one who is there until the end."  People go through phases of support for individuals, then move on: that's fine, and perfectly understandable, but no reason to be mean about your former favourite. Just move on! Leave him alone!

And now we turn to Basic Psychology: the reasons behind all this venom.

1) over-identification of self-esteem.

Here's the picture: A Person picks their favourite - possibly based more on their looks, or their personal charm, than their cycling ability. They declaim loudly on the internet "My boy is going to win: he's the greatest, he's fantastic, any of you who don't support him are stupid, no-one else comes near him, he's gonna WIN he's gonna WIN" and the subtext includes "and I am so clever, gifted, perceptive and knowledgeable about cycling".

Then their favourite (it's not just Andy I'm talking about, btw) fails to perform one day, and suddenly the Person is saying that the rider is rubbish, they are useless, etc etc.

Why? Simple reason: the Person concerned has linked themselves with the rider, has staked their reputation, if you like, on that rider winning, and when they don't, well, it reflects badly on the Person. They feel that they have chosen badly, shown bad judgement, failed to spot the real winner, and now everyone is laughing at them because it has been shown that they don't, actually, know that much about cycling after all, otherwise they would have chosen the right winner.

So the rider has let them down - made them look stupid and foolish, and they lash out spitefully.

Is any of this sounding familiar?

Even those who should know better are doing it:

 
Is there really any excuse for this? Who, exactly, does a tweet like this one help?

It certainly doesn't help Andy - don't you think he's already aware of his performance so far?

It doesn't help all of us who read it and who still support Andy - it's as though the writers of tweets like this are now trying to make "us" feel as stupid and foolish as "they" feel.

I can't imagine it makes the writers feel any better either, other than momentarily - they are bound to get a backlash from other tweeters or forum contributors, and how will they feel when they look back, in a few weeks' time, when Andy is performing better and they deign to support him again: when they read what they wrote in anger and humiliation, what will they feel?

2) Jealousy.

This one's really easy: the Person concerned supports a different cyclist, and simply envies Andy (or Bradley, or whoever) for having an enthusiastic fan base.

If your own pet rider is not doing particularly well at any given moment, it's easier to put down someone else in order to make "your" guy look better.

Also, there is an element of 1) in it: as it stands, on paper, Andy is not doing particularly well - he hasn't won anything this year, he hasn't made any spectacular attacks - and yet he still has his huge and enthusiastic fan base (that's us!), supporting him all the way. The Jealous Guy thinks "why are they making such a fuss of that Andy, who's done nothing? They aren't as clever as me, they can't see that they are wasting their time on him. I must tell them so, because I am so clever, and important, and knowledgeable and CORRECT  in my views, they must listen to what I say. In fact, it's my duty to tell them how stupid they are being, to support the wrong person."

And let's face it, it's easy to be jealous of Frandy - who in the peloton has a tee-shirt?  Let's see... hmmmm... well, Andy of course has Stomach of Anger: Jensi has "shut up legs", Johnny Hoogerland had a well-deserved barbed-wire teeshirt for a while. Who else? Not many, is the answer. Who else other than Frandy have flags with their faces on (Figgy, stop snorting about car flags, I can hear you)?  When you see a block of Lux ensign blue-and-white stripey flags along the route, you know (begging your pardon, Laurent Didier) who they are for. I am clearly somewhat biased on this, but I do think that the Schlecks, and Andy in particular, are possibly the most popular/well known cyclists out there at this time. Even people who know nothing about cycling have heard of them, whereas I say "Contador" and I get blank looks.

So, we have 1) over-identification, 2) jealousy, and we had better not forget 3) bloody-mindedness.

Or "Trolling" as it's known. Yes, there are some sad people out there who don't care what they say, they just want to stir people up and get some responses. Why do they do it? Just to be annoying? Just to get someone to tweet them, or tweet about them, or to respond to them in a forum? Do they feel this gives them credibility? Or power, in some sick, twisted way? In my opinion, it's the second worst thing about the internet.  (Third worst, if you include porn.) The only way to deal with them is to ignore them: by  responding, it just fans the flames and they get even more rude and insulting.

So, there are many reasons why people on the internet are mean to Andy. But it's a bit much when we, his own supporters, start doing it as well.

Here are the facts as I see them: Andy is a Tour guy. We know this to be true. He loves the Tour, it's his main goal of the year, and he will happily sacrifice all earlier chances to win, in order to use the races as specific "training" aids.

Read any book about cycling or cyclists (I've read quite a few now) and they all comment that the Tour is the biggest race in the cycling calender, and there are some riders who are only interested in winning the Tour. Andy is one of those. Deal with it.

Yes, it's annoying for fans, who would like to see him win earlier, would like to see him win lots of races - but ask yourself, for whose benefit is that? So that YOU look better? So that YOU can jump up and down on the sofa yelling  his name? Because YOU are embarrassed to be supporting a guy who doesn't seem to be winning anything yet? Are other people taunting you about your favourite's lack of performance? Please see Basic Psychology 1), above. Don't take it personally.

Of course, all this might well have to change now that the UCI rules about points are in place: all riders are going to have to learn this lesson, that they have to get as many UCI points as they can, in order to ensure continued Pro-team status for their team, and to maintain their personal transfer value. But for now, if a rider wants to concentrate on the Tour to the exclusion of all else, we have to accept their decision, and we have to trust that they know what they are doing.

Also, just occurred to me, another point that we have covered here in Schleckland many, many times: it's very easy for us armchair cyclists to say "pedal faster" or "get your back flatter" or "attack!" but we are not there, we don't know how Andy's body feels (stoppit, I can hear you, and you know perfectly well what I mean) (*stern look*) that is, we don't know if he's in pain from an old injury, a new injury, stomach upset, or whatever: plus we are not privy to what his coaches have planned, we are not an experienced DS, (or at least, I'm not, I don't know about you guys) so it really isn't any of our business to shout at him that he "should" be doing this, or that, at any given time.

I have also spent an interesting hour or so going back through some old posts on here, from last spring: guys, we were saying all the same things - "he's not on form yet" "he hasn't won anything yet"  "ah but he's just changed teams" "lots of pressure to perform" "injuries"  "knee not well" - and as we know, it worked out fine.

And this morning, there is a nice piece in the cycling news from Shack man Haydn Roulston, who says that the internal friction is not as bad as it sounds in the press: Andy is improving daily: the team are getting on well together: and he cunningly points out that there is still a month to go until the Tour, and those who are flying now might well have lost their peak by then.

So please, everyone out there, let's have a bit less drama, a bit more faith, and let's just enjoy the racing that we see, without wishing for a win every time.

Now for something to lighten the spirits, to end this rather dispiriting post: if you are feeling a bit "down" over this year so far, I can highly recommend going back to April or so of last year and reading some of the Schleckland news - some of it is quite funny! Waaay back then, (Canadian Schlecklanders take note) I was the one drawing attention to Ryder Hedjerdal by taking the mickey out of his name.  And Russian cycling! Anyone remember that? *screams with laughter* "blushes guiltily at being caught laughing at her own stuff, but actually, it's quite funny!*

Enjoy the rest of the Dauphine, and the start of the Tour de Suisse, and I'll be back next week to discuss them in detail.

12 comments:

  1. Yay for Hayden Roulston being nice!!
    Interestingly enough most of the people who whine and hate Andy are probably "sunday warriors" i.e. ride their bike once a week and and proclaim to be professional know-it-all cyclists!

    It's easy for the armchair cyclists critcize from the sidelines and say Andy is rubbish at TT, but the reality is, could they beat him in a TT? and I bet my cherished Leopard socks they couldn't beat him up a hill, that's for sure!

    I know we don't know how Andy's body feels during a race, though I'm sure many of us would like to...*giggle giggle* just sloping off to the naughty corner now...

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  2. Good post, Coug :)

    I often read Italian cycling forums and people who write there usually have three critics for Andy: 1) he seems to care just about the Tour 2) he once said that 'winning the Giro would be a stepback in his career' (and, of course, we Italians got made at that) 3) this year most people (me included) think that he should have come to the Giro rather than going to the Tour. Moreover, last year Andy was often criticised during the Tour and L-B-L because he kept on looking at his brother and because of his tactics.
    Besides people who criticise him for these reasons, unfortunately, there are the 'pure haters' who, as you say in this post, criticise Andy because of his TT skills, of his descending skills, of the way he smiles/he eats/he sleeps, etc (the funny thing is that lots of other GC riders could be criticised for the same reasons :P).

    Personally, I must admit I'm not the most innocent cycling blogger around. I've often criticised Andy in the past, especially because he seems so 'Tour-centric'. This year I really did hope he would change his mind at the last moment and come to the Giro, but it didn't happen. Still, now it's too late to keep on complaining about that, so I'm ready to support him during the Tour. Hopefully when he manages to win this race on the road, he'll become much more open to other competitions.
    As for the critics that Andy received last year because of his racing style, I think he wonderfully proved me (and the other people who criticised him) wrong with his wonderful victory on Galibier.

    As far as I'm concerned, I usually criticise Andy because I think that, with his talent, he could win many of the most important races of the cycling calendar. Therefore I think it's a pity to see him racing well just in July. A guy like Nibali (who, in my opinion, is less strong than Andy) has managed to win a Vuelta, was close to winning Lombardy and tried his luck also in a race like Sanremo. And, after seeing these things, I can't help but wondering what results would Andy achieve if he wasn't so Tour-centric. Anyway.

    On to the terrible time that our boy is having in France right now, I think there's no point in criticising him. Even last year in fact he had lots of problems in Tour de Suisse, but then he managed to arrive second in the Tour. Therefore I'm pretty confident about his chances of doing well in the Tour - perhaps he won't win the GC, but I'm sure he can win at least one stage. Moreover, at this point of the season critics can just do Andy bad, because it's too late to turn back time and change something in his preparation. Let's trust the boy and I'm sure he'll give us some exciting moments also during this Tour :)

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  3. That was a nice read, Coug! Here in NL, there's a saying "high trees catch a lot of wind". As in, when you're at the top, there'll also be a lot of people criticizing you.

    Andy has been at the top of cycling ever since 2007, when he was only 21 years old, and since then he's achieved great results every year. Now he's (maybe) having a bad season, for the first time in his carreer. Not something to be ashamed of, I think.

    Moreover, I think Andy is an easy target. He really is a nice guy in person, and so is Fränk.
    And wasn't Cadel Evans a whiner, wheelsucker and "don't step on my dog!"-screamer until he became world champion and won the Tour?

    I can't stand people still blaming him for having lost time on the descent to Gap during last year's Tour. It's no secret that descending is not Andy's hobby, but as you say, it's not like he's still stuck on some mountain top. People should not forget that only 2 months earlier he'd lost a teammate and friend of 10 years on a descent. That certainly doesn't help.

    And yes, he did improve his TT skills last year: in 2010 he came in 44th in the final TT, where last year he finished 17th. Quite an improvement I'd say. Cadel was super strong that day, and even if Fabian had ridden the TT for Andy, Cadel still would have won the Tour. That says a lot about Cadel's performance that day.

    And yes, they are skinny. Even more when you see them in person. But that goes for all cyclists. I'm petite, and Contador is one of the few grown men that I could look straight into the eyes without looking up. The same goes for Lance Armstrong. (Although, I have to admit, Fab's thighs are even more impressive in real life, haha)

    But it's not only Andy and Fränk they are bashing, it's also their fans. It has happened quite some times to my sister and me that people started making funny noices as soon as they noticed our LT jerseys. And I've heard the phrases "He didn't exactly win, did he?!" or "Yes, but they are GIRLS. The Schleckies only have girls as fans, and since girls don't know a single thing about cycling..." many times. (to which I always angrily reply that a) I've been following this sport closely ever since 1996 and that b) they don't have only fangirls, my dad is a fan too, and he's certainly not a girl.)
    There's been riders that I don't like, but I've never been mean (nor close to that) towards those riders or their fans.

    Inge

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  4. Coug, thanks for the excellent analysis.
    I've been thinking a lot about it since a few years and so I cherish your conclusions and would like to add point 4.
    Point 4: because they are/were such open and accessible guys, some people find they're on the same level as they themselves are, so they can treat them with no respect and even can call them arrogant when the boys utter great ambitions.

    (Are you sure you only studying botanics?)

    Barbara

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  5. Good post and it has struck a chord. My twitter timeline has caused me to think a lot about this exact topic, and my part in it, this week. I want to be balanced and measured in how I react, but I'm thinking about disengaging a bit because it's crazy how easily it is to get sucked into the negativity and the negative speculation. This is not how I would want to be treated, nor is it how I want to feel watching a sport.

    Kat

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  6. In fairness Coug, I did want to see those Frank and Andy flags on official motorcades of visiting Luxembourg dignitaries. All 2 of them!

    You’re on to something with the projected self-identification. As to why people are vitriolic… I see a lot of that in tennis. I like Roger Federer, I admire him as a person, and I’ve heard him called a cry baby, a “faggot”, effeminate, a “closet gay”, soft, and a ballerina. I don’t know if I should be more offended by the slander, or the equally depressing homophobia. But to answer the question: People are JERKS! Especially on forums.

    I am guilty of falling out of (er, what do call it when you’re besotted with a nose, and bizarre one-liners like “trucks in Berlin”???) with Schleck the younger, and I admit to not a little schadenfreude when I see parodies like the Downfall one. But, I don’t actually believe Andy can’t descend the stairs, or that he’s a pansy. For pity’s sake, I take the escalator and elevator at every opportunity! And pansies are violas!

    Anyway, I’d rather be enthusiastic about the riders and teams I am rooting for (Quack-Quack-Quack-Quackacuda! Yes, that was an obscure reference to Frasier). I’m sure Andy is going to kill it, as the kids say, or wreak havoc, and make the Tour interesting as David Millar (the self-named “hindsight clairvoyant”) said.

    As for armchair cycling experts… I still chuckle when I see non-professional cyclists in BMC kits, riding custom-made Specialized bikes on the road. The wandering moose scares haven’t happened yet, but one can dream.

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  7. I noticed Ryder Hesjedal back in the Col du Tourmalet stage of the 2010 Tour (Versus TV interviewed him after the stage ...I liked the cut of his nose). I didn't understand the confusion about the name, as I've heard the name Ryder before. Maybe it's one of those Canadian things? Kids named Ryder, the British spellings with the American accent...

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  8. I saw the post you referenced Coug - and I responded to the person - and was shocked.

    Maybe the peak has been hit now? I did notice more compassion for OGL today than prior days. He's hurt. He said he "broke mentally" in the car after he withdrew. People felt that I think. "Oh, the dudes human, and hurt".

    I hope things continue to lighten up....and frankly, no pun, I still blame Johan.

    BE

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  9. Frankie did a nice, nice show today. Close, but no cigar, nevertheless, impressive. Someone wants to go to France!
    BE

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  10. Wow, ranty!

    For starters, I know the person whose tweet you have included in this post. I stood next to her in Grenoble and watched her cry her heart out as Andy lost the 2011 Tour. I know she has supported the Schlecks pretty much unwaveringly for years. It is actually possible to be a fan of someone and not be all lovey-dovey nice about them all of the time. In fact, I think a healthy dose of criticism is no bad thing when it comes to following a sport and the people you support. Susan - your example of Roger Federer is a good one for me. I was a massive Fed fan for years. Nowadays, I like to see other people win, but it doesn't mean I don't respect the huge contribution he has made to tennis over the years, his grace and sheer intelligence when it comes to the game!

    Also, twitter is a forum that allows anyone to voice their own opinion on things. You have an unfollow button if you don't like what someone is saying. The same thing goes for cycling forums. I purposely do not read them because they just make me angry, and I'm not even necessarily talking about the posts on Andy. But everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter if we disagree with them or how "wrong" we may think they are.

    To me, a lot of the commentary about Andy stems mostly from a frustration of what we as fans see on the face of things. What is being displayed outwardly, and most often reported on - "Andy abandons this, that and the other race." "Andy only cares about the Tour." ...etc etc.

    It's true, we do not know what is *actually* going on behind the scenes. So the media is really all we can go off. I realise he was injured this time around at Dauphine, but we are halfway through the year and apparently he has only finished 6 races. To be honest, I thought he'd only managed to finish 2 before I was told otherwise! So, I think it's pretty fair if someone following the sport starts to form the opinion that Andy abandons races cos he just doesn't feel like doing them anymore. That tweet in your post is fairly reflective of how I feel too. It IS his job to ride a bike and to ride for his team, regardless of any issues with management. His lack of results/performance does tend to suggest he doesn't take any other races but the Tour seriously. For me and for others, that is a shame, because we see his potential and that he's just not realising it. I also think we have to remember, there are many other riders at RSNT, also experiencing injuries and whatever problems there may be with the same management. Yet they get on with things, get results and continue to do their jobs.

    I think Fede said it best: "As far as I'm concerned, I usually criticise Andy because I think that, with his talent, he could win many of the most important races of the cycling calendar. Therefore I think it's a pity to see him racing well just in July."

    I do not think I "over-identify" with Andy, I will gladly acknowledge that I would have no hope in hell of ever beating him in a bike race, either on the flat or in the mountains! I mean, I struggle to even stay upright on a bike for starters! But I will still be critical of his performance and I will still get frustrated when it seems like he just doesn't *do* anything.

    I do actually hope that Andy has a good result at the Tour, but I do not think we'll see him on the podium this year.

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    1. Lee, I've read some forums who are so completely full of hatred -and I mean hatred in it's worst form- towards the brothers, that it goes far beyond sound criticism or fan-frustration. It's really scaring.....
      I'm sure the girl, who stood next to you last year at TdF, doesn't belong to any of those hate-groups and in fact I don't think her (desperate?) tweet is a good example of what's really going on internet.

      Barbara

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  11. And prepare for more furor! RSNT announced their long list TdF selection. No Chris Horner. Ergo - no Americans on the team - and the bulles are rising...Shack is...afterall...an American company yes? And the mgt claims Chris is too hurt (back injury) yet yesterday he posted he'd ridden 600 miles last week - mostly TT bike - and 100 miles TODAY!. Humm....something is not right in Luxembourg! And people are saying...Chris at least had results - despite all his injuries from last year - yet....who is chosen for TdF? Then again - maybe there are injuries we don't know about or Chris isn't tweeting about...but it's a cluster"mess".....TRSN is kicking away "fans" daily it seems!
    BE

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